Ontario Reader and Questions about Fire Based EMS

I got an email a few days ago from a fellow EMSer from the Great White North, I'll call him Edmond.  It would appear that Edmond's local Fire service is considering branching out into EMS and he had a few questions for me after watching Beyond the Lights and Sirens, my adventure with a British Paramedic from 2009.

He has given me permission to reply to his questions in a post, so here we go!
How are the hours for paramedics working on the ambulances?

In my agency we have 2 different types of Paramedics: Firefighter/Paramedic and Single Role Paramedic.  The former assigned to Fire Engines and the latter assigned to ambulances.  It wasn't always like that, however.  When I was brought on the ambulances were staffed on 24 on/48 off by Firefighter/EMTs and Firefighter/Paramedics.  Now the Paramedics work a 10 or 12 hour shift.


Are the paramedics and firefighters salary the same ? or does one make more than the other? or being cross certified?

Firefighter/Paramedics do make more than Firefighter EMTs, yes.  Maintaining both disciplines is not complicated.


What kind of training did you do to get to your position now as a paramedic-firefighter who also works for the fire department ?



I trained as a firefighter long, long ago, completing my EMT and EMT-Intermediate while a volunteer firefighter and later a paid firefighter.  I completed Paramedic School and my degree program while working as a Firefighter/EMT.  To qualify as a lateral Firefighter/Paramedic at my current location I had to have my training and 5 years as a firefighter as well as 3 years experience as a Paramedic.

Are the firefighters trained in medical calls to what I believe is EMT-B level ? If so are they allowed to administer symptom relief medications to patients while working on the fire engine as a firefighter without cross certification as a paramedic?


Yes, EMTs on the Fire Engine carry basic level medical training and are registered with the County and State.  They can perform assessments, administer Oxygen, deploy an AED and other basic splinting, bandaging etc.  In other areas, EMT-Bs can also administer Albuterol and glucose orally.  It really is "Basic."  Mark and I discuss it in a video from England that might make sense to you when he discusses ECSWs.





 Are the ambulances deployed and stay in the joint fire-ems stations or are they posted on the streets?

Ambulances here are dynamically deployed to pre-determined posting locations and dispatched based on their location.  They move all over the City throughout the shift.

Could you preform your ALS skills while scheduled to work on the Fire engine? If you are required to attend initially as a firefighter but later on the call as a medic?

Yes, I would hope so!  If not able to treat as a Paramedic on the fire engine there would be no need for me there.  We have Duty to Act legislation that requires a person to act to the level of their license whenever working for the agency and able to do so.  Placing a Paramedic on an Engine and not equipping them or allowing them to use their training is most wasteful and inefficient.

Many times we as Paramedics are deployed as Firefighters until the need arises.  Most often there are other Paramedics not directly involved in the firefighting effort that can tend to the injured.



Would the pension and age of retirement be the same for both EMS and firefighters?

Depending on the negotiated contract of course, but for our Firefighter/EMT and Firefighter/Paramedic personnel the retirement calculations are equal based on length of service.


He includes a link to explain his interest in my answers and I have to say a 20 hour self study course isn't even good enough for basic skills let alone "symptom relief."

If the Ontario Fire Service is truly interested in providing an increased level of care they shouldn't ignore the 10% of their staff that can deploy as Paramedics.


20 hour self study for "symptom relief..." I wouldn't trust a 20 hour self study learn to knit class.  Heck I took a 50 hour ICS self study class that wasn't enough.

Ontario Firefighters do appear to be trying to expand on a poor solution instead of deploying a reasonable one.  If ambulances are slow, making fire engines faster does not solve the slow ambulance problem.


Then again Edmond...I'm no expert.

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